tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post2243711931769154848..comments2023-10-31T04:37:20.113-07:00Comments on Bloviating Zeppelin: Question:Bloviating Zeppelinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-80306168873391738752011-06-15T09:39:56.409-07:002011-06-15T09:39:56.409-07:00Not unless it's by accident BZ :-)Not unless it's by accident BZ :-)Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-54205132724478615232011-06-14T17:13:52.456-07:002011-06-14T17:13:52.456-07:00NFO: and thanks, sir. But yeah, they are the chea...NFO: and thanks, sir. But yeah, they are the cheaper alternative to those much more expensive options. Most people think the booms and lines somehow have something to do with fishing off the sides of the boats.<br /><br />BZBloviating Zeppelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-52312347495627427102011-06-14T17:08:30.215-07:002011-06-14T17:08:30.215-07:00BZ- you're correct, I just didn't get into...BZ- you're correct, I just didn't get into the 'small' boats. Outriders (or sponsons)are used as a cheap alternative to the more expensive gyro or wing stabilizers.Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-11925082877119672292011-06-13T20:28:17.868-07:002011-06-13T20:28:17.868-07:00Bump: I would also submit that killing passengers ...Bump: I would also submit that killing passengers is just a tad worse than losing a frigging massive load of containers that no one much cares about short of their respective insurers.<br /><br />Let just ONE major cruise ship go down these days and the ENTIRE industry would stall for years.<br /><br />BZBloviating Zeppelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-20724509069462224402011-06-13T20:22:37.499-07:002011-06-13T20:22:37.499-07:00But, Leticia, you can't see the nature of that...But, Leticia, you can't see the nature of that and other ships unless and until you view them from your own perch on a similar cruise ship.<br /><br />Mark, I would concur. You know, of course, the origin of the word "ballast," do you not, and how the word "ballast" also applies to the railroads?<br /><br />And yes, containers ships these days take massive hits from our open oceans.<br /><br />NFO: and THERE you go sir! Excellent! Yet, the Holland America line does NOT utilize horizontal stabilizers as you would expect -- as the bulk of their ships are built by Fincantieri in Italy.<br /><br />That also, NFO, is why you see so-called outriders on Long Liner fishing boats on the east coast. You remember the boat Andrea Gail in the book and film "Perfect Storm"? Those outriders on port and starboard had nothing to do with fishing. They instead trailed for stability. Check this site for overall fishing vessel stability: http://www.fao.org/docrep/011/i0625e/i0625e00.htm<br /><br />It's like what earth engineers consider to be a "surcharge" when they build fill into various bays. For example, the San Francisco Bay has many millions of feet of earth packed INTO the bay from the late 60s so that very VALUABLE properties could be built and, further, expensive motels and venues built. When you extend what is called "fill" into a water environment, you anchor and solidify the stability of the fill by removing the actual dirt surcharge and, instead, replacing the surcharge with BUILDINGS and edifices and WEIGHT. But, in the end, it is only just fill. <br /><br />I learned this from my compaction engineering classes in college, of all places.<br /><br />I would proffer this as something that ALL my readers can relate:<br /><br />Have you not been to a beach where the tide or surf has just gone out and the sand looks dry? But just take your foot and tap it a few times over the seemingly "dry" sand. Does it not IMMEDIATELY liquify and allow your foot to sink? Such is it with fill in oceanic and water venues. Engineering once again rears its ugly practical head.<br /><br />But there are still many things in engineering that I do not understand.<br /><br />Grey Geezer: I proffer this from the most recent book "The Wave" by Casey. If you are also interested I would highly recommend -- in terms of fishing vessels (specifically in Alaska) and their center of gravity, buoyancy, fishing gear stability, following and quartering seas, icing, hydrostatic curves, and the stability notice, to the book by Patrick Dillon: "Lost At Sea." A very readable and, at the same time, pointed view of how building, loading and truth can come to disastrous loggerheads.<br /><br />BZBloviating Zeppelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-40194927020609134832011-06-13T16:49:29.888-07:002011-06-13T16:49:29.888-07:00bz . . . I've owned several ocean going small ...bz . . . I've owned several ocean going small boats - and I think your basic theory is correct. At the same time I have a problem accepting your two boats a day comment. Despite the awful high-narrow-shallow floating hotels I've not heard of any going down in quite a while. Lloyds does insure a number of car-boats, passenger ferries, and other vessels that carry hundreds and sometimes thousands of people - and go to Davy's locker every month. Usually in India, the Phillipines, Indonesia and etc. Maybe that's what they are counting? BumpThe Grey Geezernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-1051234388250820372011-06-13T16:11:12.510-07:002011-06-13T16:11:12.510-07:00It is a calculation of just how much ballast(lead)...It is a calculation of just how much ballast(lead) is in the keel of the ship.<br />The calcs will also tell you just how high above the c/g you can go with super-structure.<br /><br />The ship designers do this without fail, but I, like you, wonder what would happen in very heavy weather out at sea. Would it roll, or recover,,,,,and stay upright on keel.<br />A lot also depends how the Captain steers the ship.<br /><br />I would like to know it's "safety factor" before I boarded it.<br />Most travel agents wold not have the slightest idea of what I just proffered!mrchuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14178283210901458964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-21366591997891412002011-06-13T15:59:18.577-07:002011-06-13T15:59:18.577-07:00You are correct BZ, they 'get away with it'...You are correct BZ, they 'get away with it' by using something like wing stabilizers (electronically adjustable) or horizontal fins below the waterline to limit rolling moments. Another option is to ballast down (e.g. take on sea water) to make the ship ride deeper in the water. The wider you make a ship, the more friction (and power loss) you encounter, plus the ride is not as smooth due to the wider beam the seas can act on. I wouldn't take a free cruise if you gave me the Captain's cabin and hot and cold running 'maids'... Only about 30 people are actually capable of 'running' the ship...Old NFOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404197287935017147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-12557754309144823832011-06-13T06:00:26.852-07:002011-06-13T06:00:26.852-07:00While I expect that superstructure on a passenger ...While I expect that superstructure on a passenger ship is pretty light and there's plenty of ballast capacity below that does look like a big target for high winds and big waves, don't it? those container ships seem to be what looks like an accident looking for a place to happen to me, they stack those cans ever higher it seems, wonder how many of those account for the losses.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14771645943793084344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7370534.post-32906163782612371992011-06-12T19:52:41.655-07:002011-06-12T19:52:41.655-07:00I am no expert so I would refrain from answering y...I am no expert so I would refrain from answering your question.<br /><br />However, I will make an observation. From the looks of that ship, I would think even the slightest wave would knock that sucker over. <br /><br />I'd be afraid to be on it.Trekkie4Everhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226981394122557804noreply@blogger.com