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Bloviating Zeppelin: Holding Decisions Hostage

Bloviating Zeppelin

(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Monday, December 12, 2005

Holding Decisions Hostage


You're the governor of the State of Fornicalia, Arnold Schwarzenegger. You know that, as of yesterday (Sunday, 12-11-2005), the Fornicalia Supreme Court refused to stay the execution of Stanley Williams. The very last hope for clemency lies in your right hand, should you sign the paper granting same.

You're a registered Republican but the Republicans and, perhaps moreover, conservatives apparently left you hanging in the breeze during your special election in November, and all your initiatives went down in flames. Just when you thought you had the support of your proclaimed party and its electorate, you discovered that support consisted of so much smoke.

You regrouped, conferred, let loose your prior Republican inner circle staffer Patricia Clarey and replaced her with the very Left-leaning Susan Kennedy. You caught flack for that from the Right as well.

Stanley Williams is slated to die at one minute past midnight tonight at San Quentin Prison north of San Francisco, by lethal injection.

You can grant clemency and perhaps pick up some votes for your 2006 re-election from the center, center-Left and far Left. That would be a given.

On the other hand, no clemency request has been granted in Fornicalia since 1967, when Ronald Reagan spared a mentally ill killer.

But if you refused clemency, you stand to alienate your potential centrist (and further) voters and perhaps garner support from the Right -- but will you? You know their recent track record. Is it a given that you will acquire their support instead of their rancor or dismissal?

But wait; there's more:

There is information to the effect that if clemency is not granted, riots may erupt throughout the state, likely in Los Angeles, similar to those that occurred in 1992 following the Simi Valley Rodney King verdict when LA police officers were acquitted.

Robin Toma, executive director of the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission said, during a news conference at LA city hall:

We picked up information that led us to believe that there were some planned and intentioned acts of violence that could occur in the wake of the decision or the execution planned for Stan "Tookie" Williams.

Toma declined to elaborate on the specifics behind the threats, and sources are unnamed.

How much credence do you give to this information? And isn't this a clear attempt to hold your decision hostage? Do you let thugs, criminals, gangbangers and their sympathizers influence your decision? Or, with this information, do you wait and offer no decision until you've ensured that CDC prison and statewide law enforcement agencies are properly prepared to deal with the potential threats?

I know what I would do. Mr. Williams would be allowed to meet his maker at one past midnight.

What will Governor Schwarzenegger do?

I honestly do not know.

33 Comments:

Blogger Eddie said...

I think Schwarzenegger will do the right thing, which is let him fry. OK, I guess the correct term isn't fry with lethal injection. It's too bad we don't do public hangings or the guillotine (did I spell that right?) anymore.

This execution would have taken place months ago, if it weren't for Cali's peculiar way of litigating the death penalty (please refer to Texas as the right way to handle appeals).

Mon Dec 12, 09:23:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Yes, Texas is flat and has more scorpions and Gila Monsters per square inch than Fornicalia. Those are pretty much the only two bad things about the state. Their criminal justice system has much going for it including, but not limited to, brevity.

Mon Dec 12, 09:35:00 AM PST  
Blogger Little Miss Chatterbox said...

I don't see Schwarzenegger giving this guy clemency but it will be interesting.

Mon Dec 12, 10:28:00 AM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

We need to have an *on-line* Tookie watch tonight... :)

Make some popcorn, have a couple of beers, take a few bets, clean the guns and load heavy...

And IF riots start ANYWHERE over this murdering son of a bitch being executed, drop the rioters in their tracks...

And sing *It's a lovely day in the neighborhood* while taking a stand...

But, that's just ME talking... :)

Mon Dec 12, 11:02:00 AM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

I am against the death penalty so I think Arnold should grant clemency but I think he should do it for everyone. Tookie is nothing special to me.

However, I think we are going to have the death penalty then it should be televised. I'm sure there are morbid people out there that would get a kick out of it, but most people I bet would rather not watch it. And I think it should be done with the electric chair or by stoning. If we are a society that take joy in this barbaric act, then we should see it in all its gruesomeness.

I also think average citizens should be served to pull the switch or throw the stones just as we are served for jury duty. Again, some folks I'm sure would love to do it, but the Average joe wants no involement in the process - but that should change.

I think if people actaully had to be a part of the process, the death penalty would go away. But it easy to be a proponent of the death penalty because the taking of a human life is done in the abstract. We don't know Tookie outside of the media. We won't see the fear in his eyes as he is marched to his death. No, we'll be looking at MNF and when we wake up tomorrow, we will read that he is dead and we will move on with our lives. We don't care that the state has put to death innocent men. We don't care that the justice system in flawed and racist. No, our hands are not stained by this. He killed a man and he should die. And there are acts that are so sick that I do believe that a person deserves to die. But I don't trust a human system to judge a man and carry out the ultimate punishment.

So I guess the question is: which of you would bash a man in the head while he screamed that he was innocent? Not that I think that Tookie is innocent - but I couldn't kill someone in such a calculated manner no matter what the circumstances.

Sorry for the rant BZ, but this is how I feel.

Mon Dec 12, 11:46:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

James: if we allow televised lethal injections, for example, then we should allow applicable victim evidentiary video and/or photographs to be shown to juries in capital offenses and provide these photos, videos and digital evidence to the news media and ask they display same to their viewers.

The electric chair or stoning are not consistently 100% effective in their duties. That is my problem with them.

You will acquire the same public enthusiasm to "pull the switch" as you would for the average citizen to serve on a jury. No one wants anything to do with the process of so-called criminal law.

I fear you've set yourself up for my further counterpoint, which is: no one sees the victims at all, except for that very "small, limited and insignificant circle of friends and relatives" who have, what? Photos? Memories? Pieces of clothing left behind?

We likewise never saw the fear in the eyes of the victims, nor did we collectively smell them as they voided their bladders and bowels in death, collectively watch as their blood clotted around their heads and torso, heard them, as portrayed in my prior post, gurgling as they not only exsanguinated but had their airways choked with their own life's fluid.

James, in addition we shall never know, nor EVER will know, with luck, the excruciating-painful agony their overloaded nerve endings experienced after finding the plastic wadding from shotgun shells occluding arteries, watching in literal shock as arterial spray produced satellites left behind for forensic technicians as telltales for their demise.

Yes sir, if clemency is not granted by this governor, I shall watch MNF, despair over its moving to ESPN, and wake up in the morning wondering what my next post shall be. And if Mr. Williams has died, I may write a post and subsequently place him on Ignore Mode for the rest of my life.

As well it should be.

James, we do the best that we can as a society. We do not predicate our determinations with stone knives and bearskins but upon laws that we, collectively again, have agreed upon as a society and a cooperative.

No apologies necessary sir, nor do I consider it a rant. I am pleased that we can have a discussion, perhaps agree to disagree, and set forth our beliefs.

I continue to say: I particularly enjoy blogging because there are such a wide variety of opinions expressed by so many people. And I can always appreciate a heartfelt expression and comment.

P.S.
It is 1 PM. Governor Schwarzenegger has denied clemency for Mr. Williams.

Mon Dec 12, 01:10:00 PM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

Your correct BZ,

And I would go for everything you stated. In a capitol crime, the public should see everything. The defense should be allowed expert witnesses and should basically have the defense that OJ Simpson could afford. My thing is, a public defendant should never try a capitol case.

And when its all done, it is the public that do the taking of the life.

I do know how it feels to lose someone. My cousin was killed. Shot nine times in the chest. I don't think the police spent more than two days on it and his case was tossed in a file cabinet. Another cousin was there and watch my cousin die. A childhood friend's sister was killed along with nine other in a crack house. She was 13 at the time and was there because picking up another friend so they could go to the mall.

I don't know how they felt, but I know what it did to my neighborhood. And I know how it felt to deal with police that had more interest in hittimg us with flashlights because were were playing basketball in the alley with a milk crate than they were in solving those murders.

So, I will never trust this justice system. It is racist to the core and to see them take a life, even of those that deserve it, is hard for me to take.

I will forget about Tookie as will most of us. We will forget about his victims that we may feel sorry for, but we truly don't care about them either. And that is how life is.... and I find that sad.

Mon Dec 12, 01:38:00 PM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

Tookies New Theme Song

Mon Dec 12, 01:47:00 PM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

In our own ways we just summed up life, buddy. And I'm feeling pretty melancholy about it. I have my beliefs, you have yours. Williams gets no clemency. I don't feel happy about it. The Williams' legacy, the Crips, continue on and on and on and on, working their predation on those less powerful.

Mon Dec 12, 01:48:00 PM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

James: I was very sorry to read of your cousin's death and the 13 year old girl.

Mon Dec 12, 01:50:00 PM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

yeah, I think that is why nothing is going to break lose here. I'm from Chicago and I have never seen gang warfare like I see here in Los Angeles. It is amazing. He may have tried to change is life, but his legacy is are the Crips - and they are murderers and are committing genocide. I would like to rid the world of them. Although, he did not really co-found the Crips. He founded a sect of the Crips two years after the Crips (who were called the Cribs) were founded. But he is still the cause of a lot of violence in West LA.

I won't shed a tear for the man, trust me on that. There are better individuals worthy of that. Heck, I'll probably shed more tears when the Bears are bounced in the first round - they were totally expose yesterday. See, life is going on already.

Mon Dec 12, 01:56:00 PM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

Thanks BZ... what is so sad is that they are just two of so many that I lost to street violence and I'm only 36. Ghetto life is no joke.

Mon Dec 12, 01:57:00 PM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

BTW, Texas Fred, how do you put a link in a post and NOT have to write it like http//www.blahblah.com?

You've made a shadowed link like we do on our blogs. How is that done?

Also, I see people put photos in the comments section. How d'ya do that?

Mon Dec 12, 02:46:00 PM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

I will send you an example of the code to use via email...

Pics, go to the Blogger dashboard, you'll see the *Edit Profile* thing, you can do it there...

Mon Dec 12, 02:56:00 PM PST  
Blogger Eddie said...

James,

I was wondering if you thought if abortion should be televised, since it is equally, if not more barbaric, than the death penalty? Of course, with over a million a year, we would need to have at least on channel on the tube dedicated to this brutality and violence.

Mon Dec 12, 02:58:00 PM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

Ed,

That is a good question, and I do think that abortion is a barbaric act, but we are talking two different sets of circumstances.

The question with capitol punishment is what right do we give the state to take a life - and should they have that right?

With abortion, the question is what right to will give the individual to take the life of an unborn? But then we must define when life begins. Should a woman that finds herself pregnant be allowed to abort the child,

2 weeks, 4 weeks, 3 months, 6 months - where do we draw the line. In case of rape or incest - should the woman be forced to bring the baby to term? What if the woman's life is in danger - should we allow the mother to die in order to save the child?

Who has the right to tell a woman what she can do with her body? Does society have that right? We do on some instances - we don't allow the terminally ill patients the right to kill themselves, we don't condone suicide - we don't allow child abuse. So it is possible that we have the right to say when and under what circumstances a woman should be allowed to abort a baby.

Abortion is much more complicated than capitol punishment. CP is easy, the state should not have the right under any circumstances to take a life. Period.

Mon Dec 12, 04:02:00 PM PST  
Blogger Little Miss Chatterbox said...

Wow!! An interesting debate on Capitol Punishment. BZ, your responses were awesome. My opinion is that 98% of our sympathy should be extended to the victims and their loved ones. I don't get this liberal sympathy for these people who have committed heinous crimes. When the movie "Dead Man Walking" came out with Susan Sarandon I refused to watch it out of principle. Why is the sympathy always for the murderer and not for the victims? I don't know if you are familiar with Nancy Grace but she is awesome. She used to be a reporter on Court TV and now she has her own show on CNN. Her fiance was murdered and because of that she became a prosecutor. She has a huge passion for justice and compassion for the victims. I can really relate to her because thats where I'm coming from.

Eddie: Great point about airing the abortions.

James: I'm sorry for your losses. And I understand your distrust of the justice system. But we have to have some type of consequences for horrific crimes. To be honest I'm not even concerned about whether the death penalty is a deterrent. I just don't want people who would harm others walking around in society. I think the burden of proof should be high so we don't have innocent people on death row but I do think it is a necessary evil.

Mahndisa linked to Stephen Kelso's blog about this and he said justice was served and may God have mercy on his soul. I think that sums it up well.

BZ: Congrats on having 17 comments on your post :-).

Mon Dec 12, 05:07:00 PM PST  
Blogger Robosquirrel said...

Good post, but tag. Y'know, if you;re into that kind of thing.

Mon Dec 12, 07:33:00 PM PST  
Blogger Robosquirrel said...

Another interesting capital punishment movie was The Life of David Gale. Well I thought so. I'm all for Tookie getting the needle, let's put it on TV! Court TV would love that, eh? James has an excellent point, but I feel that if one takes a life in cold blood, one forfeits one's own life.

James: I don't know what to tell you about the system, because by it's very nature, people have to run it and make it work, yet people are flawed and have to make value judgements which are occasionally clouded. It's easy to say the system is flawed, but much more difficult to correct it. But I don't have to tell you that.

I think you're right, abortion IS different and it seems wrong to compare the two. Some have said there a cognitive dissonance required to be pro-life and pro death penalty, but you're talking about the life of an innocent vs. the life of someone guilty of horrendous crimes. I think abortion as a method of birth control is absolutely wrong. Just because it's inconvenient and you screwed up does not forfeit the baby's life. There may be circumstances where it's required and I can live with that. That said, I think states ought to be able to decide whether they're going to allow abortions or not, but that is a whole other can of worms...

What were we talking about again?

Mon Dec 12, 07:56:00 PM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

As a Military and Law Enforcement guy, all my life and now double retired, I have had to deal with this whole *Thou shalt not kill* thing forever it seems like...

And here's the conclusions I have arrived at:

If you turn the other cheek, you get 2 sore cheeks...

Folks that don't agree with Capital Punishment need to NOT call the cops next time they get victimized, hell, ya *might* cause the cop to have to shoot a bad guy...

If you are against the death penalty, and you happen to have your house broken into in the middle of the night, whatever you do, don't try and stop the poor misunderstood criminal from raping your wife or killing you and your family, he MAY have *issues* that he needs to deal with and the next 25 years in the *joint* will be plenty time for him to redeem himself for killing YOU...

If confronted by a knife weilding drug crazed mugger, for Gods sake, don't pull out that .40cal you're licensed to carry and send this SOB to hell... He's probably just a poor misunderstood soul and needs to hurt YOU so he won't hurt himself...

Bleeding heart liberals make me sick to my stomach, I hate every one of the bastards... Any man or woman that is too gutless to stand and defend what is theirs is beneath respect... And I mean that from the bottom of my calloused heart...

Mon Dec 12, 09:24:00 PM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Ya know the sad thing, TF? I'll wager, within each state, there are married men who actually think in that fashion: it's best to just let things occur and not try to be too judgmental as some alien invader rapes his wife -- after all, making too close a claim on a wife means she's chattel, right? And one person can't own another, right? And what right does the husband have to interfere with the free expression of that other man's true nature and motivations?

Heavy sigh.

Tue Dec 13, 05:32:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

LMC: thanks for your positive comments on the post and wishing me well in the wide, wacky world of comments! :^)

Tue Dec 13, 05:33:00 AM PST  
Blogger Revka said...

Eddie,
GREAT POINT ABOUT ABORTION.AND, DOING PUBLIC HANGINGS. I THINK LETHAL INJECTION IS TOO MILD.
BLO,
AWESOME RESPONSE TO JAMES. TELEVISE THE VICTIMS SIDE OF IT. BLOODY PICTURES, VIDEOS AND ALL. THEN SHOW THE FAMILIES REACTION WHEN THEY FOUND OUT, AND VIDEO HOW IT EFFECTED THEIR LIFE. THAT SHOULD BE A NEW REALITY SHOW OR SOMETHING.

Tue Dec 13, 06:01:00 AM PST  
Blogger Gyrobo said...

If you want to make a link from a comment, use

where the address of the linked site is in the quotes, immediately followed by

Tue Dec 13, 06:23:00 AM PST  
Blogger Gyrobo said...

That didn't work out as I expected it. Let's try that again:

<a href="">

where the address of the linked site is in the quotes, immediately followed by

</a>

Tue Dec 13, 06:25:00 AM PST  
Blogger Gyrobo said...

And you should have words in between the twain, so people have something to click on. Try it!

Tue Dec 13, 06:26:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Okay, so if I want to link my site, then I'll try:

Bloviating Zeppelin

Tue Dec 13, 08:11:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

Gyrobo: Yer a MIRACLE WORKER, I tell you!! A darned MIRACLE WORKER indeed!!

Tue Dec 13, 08:12:00 AM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

Texas Fred, you are so off point I'm not sure if it is worth commenting. There is a big difference in opposing CP because for philosophical reasons on justice and defending yourself. I bust a cap in a fool in a second to protect my family or myself. Who's arguing against that? How is not believing in CP an avocation for criminal behavior? Your points aren't even within context of the debate.

Did you read my comments here? I've lost people to some very violent acts - and had I been there, I would have been more than willing to take a life to protect my love ones.

Your problem is that you confuse an opposition to a judicial process for advocating violence. Please explain how my opposition to CP translates to the fact that I should not call the police when a crime is perpetrated against me? How do you intellectually make that connection?

Are you saying that to disagree with a particular sentence to a crime equates to not supporting justice and supporting lawlessness? Please... your points have no merit.

Tue Dec 13, 08:44:00 AM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

Damn, I think I hit a nerve...

Did I name ANY names??

I don't think so...

Guilty consciences abound though...:)

Tue Dec 13, 10:48:00 AM PST  
Blogger TexasFred said...

BloZep??

Did you check your email?? I sent you a template on how to post a hot link...

American Conservative Forums

Tue Dec 13, 11:37:00 AM PST  
Blogger Bloviating Zeppelin said...

TexasFred: thanks, I'll go check the e-mail sir! Appreciate it!

Tue Dec 13, 12:39:00 PM PST  
Blogger James Manning said...

Fred, rather than deal with what you perceive as my guilty consciences - as I have no idea on why I should feel guilty considering I firmly believe in my stance on the issue - why don't you engage me on the substance of my comment as I did yours. I didn't say you named names but you did mention liberal bastards - and since I am a Liberal, then I feel I have the right to take you to task on your comment as Eddie and BZ took me to task on mine. Free market of ideas and expression. I'm just asking, can you qualify you statement and answer the following question.


How not supporting CP is an avocation of lawlessness and a repudiation of self-defense.


If you can't qualify the statement because it was just a rant... that's cool. I like to rant like also. No skin off my back and I bid you a nice day and move on.

Tue Dec 13, 12:42:00 PM PST  

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